Interview with Professional Latin Champions Massimo Arcolin & Laura Zmajkovicova - Part II

In the first half of their charming conversation with us (see Part I), Massimo Arcolin and Laura Zmajkovicova talked about their creative processes, competitive strategies, attitudes surrounding teaching and learning, and more.

Ever gracious with their time and input, the friendly duo continue to share their musings here, taking us on a ride from overcoming difficulties, to surprising tidbits about each other, and even to their furry little companion at home. We begin where we left off, on the topic of mindset.

Speaking of mindset, I am curious about how you deal with difficulty and discomfort. Are you someone who would say, “It's actually not difficult, I can do it,” or are you more likely to say, “No, this is difficult, this is a struggle, but I can do it anyway”?

Laura: I think more the second, because there are definitely many, many obstacles. If it was easy, everybody would be world champions. So it’s not easy at all - it’s a lot of struggle. It’s a lot of overcoming physical difficulties, and mental difficulties. The higher you go, it’s more mental than physical - that’s for sure.

Massimo: Whatever the difficulty is, you need to first realise that there is something, because some people say, “Oh, it’s nothing, I’m okay,” but if you’re true to yourself, then you know there is something wrong, or that something isn't working. Only then can you start to think of what to do next, because actually, there are only two outcomes.

Either you kind of struggle, and then you stop and leave, or you find the solution, move past the problem, feel better, and continue on. When you realise that you can actually do that, then you feel like you can deal with any obstacle. You can go through it and overcome it.

The problem lies in the beginning, to realise something and then decide what you want to do. Do you want to stop in front of the problem, or do you want to continue to do something? Of course, it’s difficult.

I might feel quite positive in general, but sometimes I have my dark moments too, when I don’t even want to go to the studio, or I feel like blocking myself off. I might take one or two days, and then I come out of that.

Laura: I think we all have things that are easier for us, and things that are more difficult for us, and it can be different for everybody. I don’t believe that there is anyone in the world who always feels like, “Oh, it’s easy, I can do it,” because for sure, you will find something that is an obstacle. No one is born to be a champion immediately, you know?

Massimo: I also find that usually, we put the obstacle in our head. I found this out because I have some days where everything works out. It doesn’t matter what problem there is - I can solve it almost straight away, because my state of mind is different that day. You know how they say, if you wake up on the right side, everything is going to work out?

It could be like that, but if something has already happened in your day, and you arrive to the studio after that, with that problem still in your mind, something new that happens in the studio might not get solved right away. You’ll have to keep digging and digging, with an attitude to go into it - into the problem.

Speaking of difficult things, what would you say is the biggest risk that you've taken in your dance career?

Laura: I think we take always some kind of risk.

Massimo: Maybe, in some moments, we think, “Oh, I don’t know if I’m going to do it…” but, when you actually think about it, there is nothing that risky. I mean, what can happen? Nothing, you’re not going to die. Of course, you’re always afraid to lose something, and that can get you a little stuck because you don’t know what’s going to happen, but I don’t know if we can call that a big risk…

Laura: Yea, I’m thinking if there was something big in that way.

Massimo: Oh! There was one time that something happened and it made me go, (gasp) “I’m not gonna do it…” There was once we had to change the show - the day before the show!

Laura: That’s true!

Massimo: And I was like, “Uh oh…” We had to change the whole idea, completely, so I freaked out.

Laura: We made a new show, and it was for a really important show.

Massimo: In the morning, we had our lesson, and the teacher said, “I don’t want you to perform that. I want you to change it to something else.”

Laura: I had a bad feeling about the show we had, which was actually a very successful show.

Massimo: Everybody loved it, and it was something that was pretty sure to go well.

Laura: Yea, but you grow as a dancer, and we came to a point where we had outgrown the show itself. The next day, we had a very important show in London, and we decided that, okay, we’re just gonna make a new one from scratch.

Massimo: Changed the music, changed the choreography - it was slightly similar, but the concept was different.

Laura: We changed the concept, the music, everything, and we came up with a completely new show from one day to the next. And actually, it was a huge success.

I’m so happy we did that, because even though it was totally different from the one before, it showed much more about the state that we were in, and our improvement was much more visual.

Massimo: But the first few hours, we were freaking out.

You’ll have to keep digging and digging, with an attitude to go into it - into the problem.

Laura: There are other kinds of risks too. For example, I used to teach very little kids, and that was my steady income. At some point, I realised that I had to just stop doing that, even though I didn't have anything else yet.

I knew that if I didn’t stop, I would not make the space for doing something else, and creating something. I had to basically say no to a job that was steady, because I knew I had to push myself to the next, higher level, so that was kind of a risk too.

And then you know, even moving to a different country, that was another thing for us - moving to Hong Kong, starting from scratch. It was very tough in the beginning, but in the end, the risk of everything actually paid off very well. It is like that many times. I think maybe you have instinct, inside, and if you listen to that, you will know…

Massimo: That’s also why it’s sometimes tough to call it risky, because the way we see it now, is that it is an opportunity. Yea, there is a risk, but we see it more so as an opportunity, so in a more positive than negative way.

Before, when something like this happened, maybe it was seen in a more negative way, but then we learnt to take it, because if you stay in a comfort zone, nothing is going to change.

That’s good advice! In interviews, we often hear a lot of great advice like that, but I feel like we don’t always talk about the poor advice that gets sent to us along the way. Have you ever received any bad advice?

Massimo: Yes, many! But of course, if it’s coming from people that you trust, you try what they ask for and… you never know. That is sometimes a risk too, to try it and then at the end feel that oh, maybe I’m not going to do this anymore, but first, I think you have to try. It doesn’t cost anything.

Laura: I also think that a bad decision is still better…

Both: …than no decision.

Massimo: Yea, we learnt that.

Laura: And it’s totally true. I think one of my biggest strengths is that I'm not afraid to make mistakes, because I think mistakes are where you really learn. Although there are a lot of bad pieces of advice or bad decisions - many of them - I think that’s also a way you learn, a way to move yourself forward. You can’t really avoid them, so it’s important to just keep moving and realising.

Sometimes the bad advice helps you even more, because you find out what you definitely don’t want. Then you’re closer to knowing what you truly want to do, you know? One of my teachers asked me many, many years ago, “so, what style of a dancer would you like to be?”

And I said, “I really have no idea, but I know that I don’t like this, and I don’t like that, and I don’t like this…” So that was already good, because even though I didn’t know what I liked, I started to eliminate what I disliked. In that way, we also started to see a path and where to go. So sometimes, the bad advice is not truly bad. I think it can be good, and healthy.

Sometimes the bad advice helps you even more, because you find out what you definitely don’t want. Then you’re closer to knowing what you truly want to do, you know?

Indeed! Now, this is a question for Laura - am I right to say that you have a little bit of background in psychology?

Laura: Well, I really wanted to study psychology, and I did, but just for one year. Then I had to stop, because I had to move to another country for dance.

Has that background helped you in dance as well?

Laura: Well, I think psychology, and working on the mental state of a person, is very important. We keep doing that with our coach, Ruud Vermeij, because he's a psychologist and psychiatrist.

We have sessions with him regularly - weekly, almost - and I think it's so important to work on the mental state of a dancer, of a teacher, of a performer, of a competitor…

Massimo: Especially to understand more about who you are.

Laura: Yea, and also as a team together, because we are two different people - totally different people. Different cultures, different opinions, different habits. And as I said before, two strong personalities.

We want to make it work, so we definitely need to work on the psychology and the mental aspect of the whole relationship as well. So it's good to have that background.

Thank you! Following up now with a question for Massimo. You’ve mentioned in a previous interview that something you might regret is getting angry at someone.

Do you think there are any situations, especially when working towards a competitive goal, where anger can be helpful? Or do you think it’s something disruptive that should be avoided?

Massimo: I think you can use anger beneficially, but not towards others. Of course, I like it when things are done in the right way. It doesn’t matter who does something, it still needs to be done the right way. When I see something that’s not done right, I do get upset and I might start to feel angry, depending on the situation. That’s why I’m…

Laura: A very dramatic Italian! (both laugh)

Massimo: Yes… and I can be quite impulsive, and react straight away, but then I learnt, because of our teacher as well, how to deal with it. How I can use this energy inside myself, to perhaps bring it onto the dance floor, in a different form. It’s not always easy.

Laura: It’s not always anger, but what kind of emotion you have in that moment.

Massimo: Even if it is anger, as I said before, you need to first acknowledge that something is happening in yourself. I used to sometimes be like, “I’m not angry, I’m not angry, nothing happened.”

I kept going with that energy, and later, it felt like I could not even move. Of course, afterwards, I learnt how to deal with it, and how to use it for a better outcome.

Even if it is anger, as I said before, you need to first acknowledge that something is happening in yourself.

Thank you for sharing that! We’ve spent a lot of questions on quite heavy subjects, so let’s change gears to something much more light-hearted.

You could tell from the tail that has been popping in and out of my frame that I have a cat. As you can see, she’s on my lap now…

Laura: Awwww…

Massimo: Yea, our cat is not like this! (laughs)

Massimo and Laura’s adorable Ragdoll cat, Havana, who was adopted during the COVID lockdown.

As a cat lover, I often feel inspired and comforted by my cats, especially after a long day.

It makes me wonder if your cat makes you look at life in a different way too. How does Havana inspire you?

Laura: She’s so stubborn! (Both laugh) But absolutely, I think animals are amazing.

Massimo: I love animals in general, but I have to say I love dogs a lot more. (More laughter)

Laura: He said he didn’t like cats, but he’s the one who chose her!

Massimo: No, I said I always wanted a dog, but then I chose her because we wanted a pet during COVID.

Laura: We went to buy a fish and ended up with a cat…

Massimo: Because I saw this little cat, and then I was like, “Maybe a cat? She might be easier to keep with us, because we travel a lot. Maybe we could keep her, or somebody could keep her while we are away, or they could just come to our house…” and then, we ended up with a cat!

Laura: But yes, I think animals, in general, are a huge inspiration to movement, to dance. Not only their movements, but also their reactions.

Massimo: Of course, no matter what happens during the day, when you arrive home and your pet is there, you feel better, like you could solve any problem. For me, I just melt inside when I see her.

Are you still more of a dog person then?

Massimo: I think so. But of course, I love animals in general, so if she does something that I don't expect, or she just looks at me and comes a little closer… 

She's not very cuddly or interested to lie on top of us, but she loves to come closer and sometimes, she throws herself on the floor and tosses and turns around. When she does that, I’m melting already. I’m all over her.

Aww, I know that feeling! 

Coming up is our second to last question - what is something about your partner that other people would be surprised to find out?

Massimo: Surprised? I think they know Laura very well! Maybe they would be more surprised to know about me, because the way I appear can be different from how I am.

Laura: Massimo seems very chill from the outside, but he is an extreme perfectionist when it comes to details. He can count millimetres on my dress, or on his outfit.

For our wedding cake, he wrote 86 messages to the person who was making the cake. He even drew the cake and showed them how many centimetres each part had to be. Such a perfectionist, and he was getting all crazy, steamed up about it.

Massimo: (smiles proudly) That’s what I said before…

Laura: So much drama: “How is this possible? They are not- They can’t do this!” Just furious…

He goes from “super chill” to “extreme, crazy drama” over a millimetre of a cake, and I’m like, (shrugs) honestly, it’s as if your life depends on it.

He can count millimetres on my dress, or on his outfit.

Massimo: As I said before, when I do something, I want to do it well. And I expect that other people are also going to do things well, that things are done in the right way. That’s why I always look out for any kind of detail.

That’s good to know!

Massimo: I also think that many times, people might think I’m very serious, because when I’m outside, if I don’t know people, I’m kind of… I have always been a shy boy, so when I’m with new people, I might appear closed and serious.

Laura: He is quite shy, that’s true.

Massimo: But actually, I’m the complete opposite. Usually, for me, I need to know the people first.

How about something surprising about Laura?

Massimo: For Laura, it’s tough to think of something that might be surprising to others, because she really is just like what you see on the dance floor! Super active and all.

There might be things that people simply don’t know about her, but even then, I don’t think they would be surprised. For example, they might not know that she’s religious, and that she goes to church, but that’s not necessarily surprising. I don’t know, it’s quite tough! Maybe I’ll think about it and tell you next time.

Sounds good! Onto our final question - what words of encouragement do you have for our competitors at the 6th Brillante?

Laura: I think… you will never feel ready enough. When people ask me, “Are you ready for the competition?” My answer is, “Always, and never.”

You are never going to feel ready, so don’t wait, just go. One of my strong mottos is, “Life is too short.” If you want to do things, do them. If you want to compete, if you want to go out there, if you want to take that lesson, go for it.

Massimo: Try something first, and then you can see how it goes and realise if you want more or less of it.

When people ask me, “Are you ready for the competition?” My answer is, “Always, and never.”

Laura: Yes, people wait for the right time, but I’m not sure if there will ever be anything called the right time, you know?

I think we all learnt that during COVID, because everything suddenly stopped. You never know what might happen, so just do the things you want to do.

Massimo: Actually, the more you start to think about it, the less likely that you’re going to do it. That’s that I realised for myself, and so it’s an advice that I would give others as well.

Massimo: Go for it, do it first, and then you can reflect on it afterwards. Don’t be scared - sometimes you find out that it’s less scary than what you thought. So yes, we wish that many competitors will go for it and be there at the championship!

Laura: And good luck for everybody!

Massimo: A lot of luck, and for sure, stay to watch the show! (laughs)

Of course! Thank you both so much - it’s been such an enjoyable conversation. We look forward to welcoming you in April!